TRANSCRIPT
of
HON. PETER COSTELLO MP
Treasurer

Interview with Neil Mitchell
3AW

Friday, 24 May 2002
8.39 am

Melbourne

 

SUBJECTS: Budget; leadership; euthanasia; Andrew Theophanous; smoking; Coalition;

Telstra; ABC; tariffs; tax

MITCHELL:

So in the studio with me the Federal Treasurer, Peter Costello. Good morning.

TREASURER:

Good morning Neil.

MITCHELL:

Now Mr Costello. Mr Costello. Why would anybody really want to be Prime Minister?

TREASURER:

Well, that’s a good question.

MITCHELL:

What’s the answer?

TREASURER:

I think people want to make a contribution, and want to make Australia a better

place, and they have policies which they would like to see implemented and that’s

why they put themselves forward for election.

MITCHELL:

Do you really want to be Prime Minister?

TREASURER:

Oh, that’s not something I’ve thought about Neil. I’ve been Treasurer now for

seven years and it’s a pretty big job. And it takes a lot of time and a lot

of concentration.

MITCHELL:

I thought last week you looked absolutely buggered. I thought you looked tired,

you looked sick, and you had obviously been working long hours on the Budget

and I thought, how many more of these can he do? How many more can you do?

TREASURER:

Well they take about six months. We’ll start next year’s Budget in about four

or five months time and it’s a Budget of $160 thousand million per annum. So

it’s quite a lot of money and you go through it line by line, it takes us about

six months to put it all together.

MITCHELL:

It must sap you, sap your energy?

TREASURER:

And, well, it takes a lot of energy and then of course you’ve got to turn around

and get it enacted. And we have got this hostile Senate which is going to try

and pull it apart so, that will take us through probably until June, July and

then we will be starting on the next one.

MITCHELL:

So how many more do you want to do?

TREASURER:

Oh, I’ll just concentrate on this one Neil. We’ll get this one through the

Parliament, I hope, as long as we don’t have negativity from the Opposition

and the Democrats.

MITCHELL:

You were quoted in the paper today saying for a Finance Minister or for a Treasurer

you are a bit long in the tooth, you have done seven, does that mean the end

is close?

TREASURER:

Well, what I was saying yesterday, was, having – one of things I noticed when

we came through the Asian financial crisis was, the number of Finance Ministers

in the region who lost their jobs as their economies went down the tube. And

because Australia has been the strongest performing economy in the region and

in the world I am still here, I guess.

MITCHELL:

Had enough?

TREASURER:

It’s a, it’s a challenge, and we keep meeting the challenges as they arise.

MITCHELL:

Harder each time?

TREASURER:

It doesn’t get any easier. This has been a hard year Neil. You think of everything

we have come through this year, as a country, together. We have had a global

slowdown, an American recession, a Japanese recession, Singapore in recession,

Taiwan in recession, Germany in recession. You had the events of September the

11th, you had HIH, you had One-Tel, Ansett and many people would have said,

well, this is it for the Australian economy, we will get a recession this year

for sure. And yet we became the strongest economy in the world.

MITCHELL:

So do you want to keep going, as Treasurer?

TREASURER:

Well, I am certainly going to see through what we’ve started, I can promise

you that.

MITCHELL:

What about the next Budget? Will you do that?

TREASURER:

Ask me about the next Budget next year.

MITCHELL:

So you are not sure?

TREASURER:

I am just totally focussed on this one Neil, that’s all I am saying.

MITCHELL:

Do you seriously say that you haven’t considered whether you want to be Prime

Minister?

TREASURER:

Oh I don’t think about it.

MITCHELL:

Have you?

TREASURER:

No, I don’t think about it. I…

MITCHELL:

It never crossed your mind?

TREASURER:

No, I am focussed on representing the electorate, doing my job as Treasurer,

Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party, that’s a pretty full day.

MITCHELL:

But with respect, that sounds like a great line, but John Howard thinks about

his, that’s the Party line, he thinks about his life at 64, you are, how old

are you?

TREASURER:

I am 44.

MITCHELL:

Are you sure?

TREASURER:

I was born in 1957, I have got to think about this, I am 44.

MITCHELL:

So don’t you ever think about what’s ahead in life? I mean you’re young enough

to go and do something else…

TREASURER:

Yes, and you think about that sometimes…

MITCHELL:

…tempted to do something else?

TREASURER:

Sometimes you think about all of the options that are in front of you. But

at the moment, here am I, I have brought down a Budget, we have seen Australia

through an economic slowdown, I want to get the Budget through the Parliament

and that’s what’s going to take all of my days…

MITCHELL:

But if you think about all the options, then you must think about the Prime

Ministership, because for you it’s an option?

TREASURER:

I don’t know. Maybe I should sit down on my 64th birthday and think about it

Neil.

MITCHELL:

Well, you are going to have to think about it before then. Where do you want

to be in ten years?

TREASURER:

I don’t think about those things. Look, I have just been elected…

MITCHELL:

Five years?

TREASURER:

…for another three year term. I am going to represent my constituents

with everything I have. I have just brought down a Budget. I haven’t enacted

this Budget. We have just been elected, I have brought down my first Budget,

the Senate says it’s going to block it, what, what are we, six months after

the election…

MITCHELL:

Yeah I’m not…

TREASURER:

…so, I am not going to sit down and say, what is going to happen next

year or the year after. What I am going to sit down and I am going to say is,

we have to get a Budget through the Parliament now. And that’s what I am focussed

on.

MITCHELL:

Yeah, what about the poll? Did you notice the poll this week, with people,

that said people wanted John Howard to stay after his 64th birthday?

TREASURER:

They have polls everyday with all sorts of outcomes, but you know, we don’t

sit around, we have got a Budget at the moment, $160 billion, we have got troops

in the field in Afghanistan, we are trying to secure Australia against possible

security risks. I am trying to base our social services which will sustain Australia

for ten and twenty years. And so I am not going to sit around and be diverted

by anything else.

MITCHELL:

Okay. There’s no guarantee that you’d do the next Budget though, I’ve got that

clear, because you do claim that you are often misreported when you speak about

this topic?

TREASURER:

No, you said to me, what about next year’s Budget. I said I will deal with

next year’s Budget next year. I am just focussing on…

MITCHELL:

Okay, so you will deliver next year’s Budget?

TREASURER:

If I am around Neil, we will focus on that next year.

MITCHELL:

If you are not around, where will you be?

TREASURER:

I don’t know. Perhaps I will come down and you know, take your job or something.

MITCHELL:

Well, you’re welcome.

TREASURER:

I don’t think I would be good at it.

MITCHELL:

You do claim you have been misrepresented when you talk about the leadership

though. So what is the position? Let’s get it unequivocally from your mouth.

TREASURER:

My position is, I am the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party and I have been

for eight years. I am the Treasurer and I am entrusted with bringing down a

Budget and getting it through the Parliament. I am focussed on the job that

I have at hand.

MITCHELL:

Do you have any ambition?

TREASURER:

Yes, I have an ambition to make Australia the strongest country in the region

and to make it one of the strongest economies in the world and I have an ambition

to ensure that we can provide social services for our people for ten and twenty

and thirty and forty years. That is my ambition.

MITCHELL:

Any personal ambition?

TREASURER:

And to do the best job that I possibly can representing my constituents.

MITCHELL:

Okay, we will move on to other matters. Voluntary euthanasia, do you support

it?

TREASURER:

No.

MITCHELL:

Should it be addressed again as an issue by the Federal Parliament?

TREASURER:

We had a debate on this a couple of years ago when the Northern Territory enacted

laws to allow voluntary euthanasia, and a motion came before the Federal Parliament

to override that, and I voted for the motion to override it, because, I just

have this view that you have got to respect life and your laws ought to be very

clear about that, and if they are not then I think we could start devaluing

people as individuals. That is my view. Now, others will have different views

and obviously I have a lot of sympathy with people who are in deep pain. But

I think once you have legal killing, that the temptation will be for some individuals

too great, and I think that as a society we would be lessened by it actually.

MITCHELL:

Do you think it’s appropriate that the 21 people who were with Nancy Crick

the day before yesterday could face life imprisonment for assisting suicide?

TREASURER:

Well, this is a matter for the police. And the police will have a look at it.

I think the rationale, I was thinking about this overnight – why do you have

these laws? You have these laws, I think, because you want to make it clear

to people who might otherwise be tempted, not to, not to help in the killing

of others. I mean, today it might be an innocent bystander but, in another situation,

suppose, you know, Mum’s become a bit of a financial burden and the kids are

worried about the inheritance and they turn up as witnesses and you know, maybe

they just give a little bit more help than was intended, and that’s why I think

you’ve got to have these laws there, because the temptations could become so

great. Now distinguishing one case from the other, the truly innocent bystander

to the person who maybe has crossed the line, is really the job of the police

and courts.

MITCHELL:

But you would defend the law against assisting…

TREASURER:

I think you have got to have the law. Yes I do, because if you didn’t have

a law and it became permissible to be around when people were killing themselves

you could cross that line and it could become an encouragement. People have

all sorts of improper motives, we know that.

MITCHELL:

Andrew Theophanous, should he lose his parliamentary pension?

TREASURER:

Well, I don’t want to comment about his case, because it is still before the

courts. He has a…

MITCHELL:

May be an appeal?

TREASURER:

There may be an appeal and I don’t think he has been sentenced. But, but…

MITCHELL:

We’re not going to influence a judge with our discussions.

TREASURER:

Well, I just want to keep us both out of trouble, Neil. I don’t want the next

case to be…

MITCHELL:

Thank you for your legal advice.

TREASURER:

…Mitchell and Costello in the Supreme Court, we would make an odd couple.

But…

MITCHELL:

True.

TREASURER:

…there are provisions, actually, in the law for, where people are convicted

of offences for entitlements to be claimed back.

MITCHELL:

Claimed back even if they’ve been paid?

TREASURER:

Yes, the employer contribution, yes.

MITCHELL:

Well, what’s your view, if the conviction stands, should it be (inaudible)?

TREASURER:

Well, I don’t want to talk about him. But I would make this point. If, my view

is, if somebody is convicted of a corruption case then I think there are grounds

to claim back their entitlements. And the law is there for that reason.

MITCHELL:

Do you think it is significant that Martin Ferguson admits warning him, that

his calls with Immigration were being monitored?

TREASURER:

I don’t know what that was about. I can not imagine. Well, you have got to

remember at the time Andrew was a Labor Party MP and I guess they were colleagues

together, but I do not know what that phone call was about. You would have to

ask Mr Ferguson.

MITCHELL:

I have.

TREASURER:

What does he say?

MITCHELL:

Ah, he was concerned that Dr Theophanous was going over the top in his dealings

with the Immigration Department.

TREASURER:

Mmmm.

MITCHELL:

Is that a significant “mmm”?

TREASURER:

It was just a “mmm”.

MITCHELL:

Just a “mmm”. Do you agree with your Parliamentary Secretary, low

income earners should quit smoking and use the money properly?

TREASURER:

I would urge anybody to quit smoking.

MITCHELL:

(inaudible) financial decision isn’t it?

TREASURER:

No, it’s good for your health, isn’t it, to quit smoking and…

MITCHELL:

You want us to give up gambling too, and drinking and use all their money on…

TREASURER:

What?

MITCHELL:

…themselves in other ways?

TREASURER:

Well, if, if you are a low income earner, Neil, it would be better to spend

your money, you would think, on food than on smoke. And probably better to spend

it on those sorts of things than poker machines too. But, what am I going to

do about it? Other than recommend that as a course of action I am not intending

to pass any laws about it, it is still a free country, and you can do what you

like. But if you ask me my opinion, yes, I think it would be good for peoples’

health if they didn’t smoke.

MITCHELL:

And didn’t drink and didn’t punt?

TREASURER:

Well, look, it is not a capital offence…

MITCHELL:

It’d be pretty boring.

TREASURER:

…well it is not a capital offence and nobody is going to do anything to

anybody. But if you ask me my view, is it better for people not to smoke? I

think most doctors would say it is better for people not to smoke. In fact I

think all doctors would say that.

MITCHELL:

What about a merger with the Nats? Go ahead?

TREASURER:

Look, we have all got our own private views on this and I guess the point I

would make is, I feel frustrated when I see the Liberal Party and the National

Party running against each other in rural seats because they spend a lot of

money running against each other which I think would be better spent running

against the Labor Party. But having said that, whether or not there is an amalgamation

is principally a matter for the National Party, and I am not going to…

MITCHELL:

What is your personal opinion?

TREASURER:

…I am not going to give them any advice. Well my personal view is I think

we should save our money and by and large not spend a lot of money running against

each other.

MITCHELL:

Merge?

TREASURER:

You do not have to merge to do that, actually. You can come to agreements as

separate parties, and we do that as a Coalition. So you do not have to do that,

to do it that way. But that is a matter for the National Party and if the National

Party does not want to merge, well fair enough, it does not have to.

MITCHELL:

Labor’s going to, say they are going to split Telstra, what is your reaction

to that?

TREASURER:

Oh look, this is just a joke, this…

MITCHELL:

Well?

TREASURER:

Well, well, you know, for the last how many years, the Labor Party has been

telling us that you have got to keep Telstra in Government ownership. And then

yesterday Mr Tanner says, well actually, that is not going to work, you know.

Well, blow me down, haven’t we been saying this for a long time? That you have

got to resolve its ownership one way or the other. You can not have it 50.1

per cent Government ownership and a 49.9 per cent private ownership. So he says

that is unsustainable.

Okay, that is an advance and I will pay him a big tick for that. Lindsay Tanner

has advanced the Labor Party’s argument saying that you can’t maintain the current

situation. So what does he do? Instead of saying what is obvious, that Telstra

should be a fully stand alone company in the private sector, he then says he

is going to asset strip it. He is going to asset strip all of the profitable

bits out of Telstra. Now, suppose you are a shareholder, 2 million Australian

shareholders bought shares in Telstra as a full service company and Mr Tanner

now says if the Labor Party gets elected they are going to strip the valuable

parts out of the company in which they have built, bought shares. Now if you

bought a share in a full service company and the Labor Party says we are going

to get elected and strip the assets out of the company in which you own shares.

MITCHELL:

So when are you going to sell the rest of it?

TREASURER:

Well we said that once we get the standards in rural and regional Australia

up to scratch we are going to offer additional equity.

MITCHELL:

We nearly there yet?

TREASURER:

I don’t know, I have not looked at it recently but we are working as fast as

we can.

MITCHELL:

Additional equity means the sale of the rest of it?

TREASURER:

Yes.

MITCHELL:

Entirely?

TREASURER:

Over time, yes.

MITCHELL:

Do you agree with Michael Kroger, the ABC is biased?

TREASURER:

I think there is a culture inside the ABC which is a predominantly left-wing

culture. You know, I think many of the people strive to be independent but the

whole ethos of the ABC is a left-wing culture. Anybody who has listened to that

knows that. I once said to an ABC journalist, did they know anybody who voted

for the Liberal Party? And he thought for a moment and said, no.

MITCHELL:

I would hope he didn’t know how anybody voted.

TREASURER:

Oh, but you actually, you know, we have listened to this for years, you actually

know the culture of the ABC, it is predominantly left of the centre…

MITCHELL:

That’s not (inaudible)…

TREASURER:

Even the Labor Party would say that to you. The Labor Party complains that

it supports even left of the Labor Party.

MITCHELL:

It’s about time they got a managing director, isn’t it?

TREASURER:

I think so. Yes, this is a big operation, Neil. Look, the ABC, from memory,

has a budget of about $700 million going to $800 million. It is a lot of money.

MITCHELL:

And they haven’t had a managing director for months.

TREASURER:

And they have not had a managing director for, what is it, 4 months. This is

a very, very large organisation which I think needs a lot of management and

to think that they have not had a managing director for so long is, makes you,

well, well, from a taxpayers’ point of view we want to know that the $700 to

$800 million has been properly managed.

MITCHELL:

Car makers say they may shut down unless the car tariffs are kept at 10 per

cent. Will they be?

TREASURER:

The car tariffs are coming to 10 per cent in 2005.

MITCHELL:

Is that the bottom then?

TREASURER:

Not necessarily, no. We are looking at the post-2005 arrangements at the moment.

If we can continue to have a profitable, world competitive car industry we will

be examining that.

And I actually think the reduction in car tariffs, let me put this on the table,

I think it has been a good thing for the Australian car industry. For one, it

has given us cheaper cars. Two, it has made our companies more competitive.

And three, Australia’s car manufacturers are now focused on exports. Let me

take you back to the days of 10 or 20 years ago, Neil, when we had high tariffs.

Our car industry was less competitive, our cars were more expensive, our industry

was focused on the domestic sales rather than exports.

MITCHELL:

Any prospects of a reduction in income tax before the next election?

TREASURER:

Well, we had very large income tax cuts back in July of 2000, as you know.

MITCHELL:

We are now at 17 per cent of GDP which you once thought was unacceptable?

TREASURER:

We had $12 billion worth of income tax cuts in…

MITCHELL:

But they’ve gone, they’ve gone.

TREASURER:

Well, they haven’t gone.

MITCHELL:

Well, our income tax level is 17 per cent of GDP, that’s too high isn’t it?

TREASURER:

It is absolute nonsense to say they have gone.

MITCHELL:

Is the 17 per cent too high?

TREASURER:

I think 17 per cent is around about the historical average.

MITCHELL:

No, it’s a record high. You’re the highest taxing Treasurer in the history

of this country.

TREASURER:

Absolute rubbish.

MITCHELL:

Is it?

TREASURER:

Absolute rubbish.

MITCHELL:

So no income tax reduction before the next election?

TREASURER:

Well, the claim about the highest taxing Treasurer is rubbish, that is the

point that I make. I see that put in newspapers from time to time, but it is

wrong.

MITCHELL:

No income tax reduction before the next election?

TREASURER:

Well, you know, again you got me because if we are going to announce something

in some years time we would announce it then, we certainly wouldn’t announce

it now.

MITCHELL:

You’d have a look at it now?

TREASURER:

Well look, we are always looking at the tax system to make sure that it is

as low as possible with sustainable social services.

MITCHELL:

Treasurer thank you for your time. How old are you?

TREASURER:

Forty-four.

MITCHELL:

Sure?

TREASURER:

Pretty sure.

MITCHELL:

Treasurer, Peter Costello.