Interview with Paul Murray

6PR

Thursday, 21 April 2005
10.35 am AEST

 

SUBJECTS: Intergovernmental Agreement, GST

MURRAY:

Good morning Peter.

TREASURER:

Good morning Paul, good to be with you.

MURRAY:

Nice to have you back again. Peter, wouldn’t you hurt your supporters

in WA if businesses took your advice and walked away from this State?

TREASURER:

Well, my advice is to cut taxes in WA. That is what this is all about Paul.

If Geoff Gallop does what Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria, Northern

Territory and ACT do, then he will get rid of double taxation in WA. WA will

be a great place to do business. But if he wants to go it alone and have double

taxation in Western Australia – that is GST and stamp duties – then Western

Australian businesses will be penalised and the reality is that some of them

will look to go into lower tax jurisdictions.

MURRAY:

And you say they should do that?

TREASURER:

No, I say, Geoff Gallop should give the people of Western Australia, what the

people of South Australia, Queensland, Tasmania, Victoria, Northern Territory

and the ACT are getting, that is, the abolition of these stamp duties which

was the basis on which the GST was introduced. When GST was introduced Paul,

everybody in Australia knows this, that the public was assured that if they

paid the GST, State stamp duties, listed stamp duties, would be abolished. And

Victoria, Tasmania, Queensland – they can all do this – Mr Gallop

says, no, no, he wants double taxation in Western Australia.

MURRAY:

Well what he says, is that he has already abolished eight business taxes since

the GST was introduced, including some of the taxes that weren’t part

of the Agreement and he says he has more than honoured the Agreement.

TREASURER:

Well you are going to have a situation now where in Victoria, Queensland, South

Australia, Tasmania, Northern Territory, ACT, pay no stamp duty on your mortgage.

But there will be a State where you have got to the pay the GST and a stamp

duty on your mortgage. That is Western Australia. Why can’t Western Australians

have the same treatment as other Australians? Why do you have to pay stamp duty

on your mortgage in Western Australia?

MURRAY:

Well his line, and I think a lot of West Australians would agree with him,

is that that is a matter for us to decide and it is a matter that we have always

been able to decide for ourselves in the past.

TREASURER:

But hang on, when the GST was introduced Paul, the GST was introduced to get

rid of these other taxes. I know, I introduced it. And I know that the West

Australian Government at the time, like all the other Governments said, yes,

this is a great revenue possibility for Western Australia and this will enable

us to get rid of other taxes. Now, we are six years down the track, the other

States are getting rid of the other taxes, and Western Australia says no, no,

no, we want GST and the other taxes. That is what Dr Gallop is saying. He wants

the GST and the other taxes that it is designed to replace. Now, I have got

to say to you this is breathtaking this. This is absolutely breathtaking. Everybody

in Australia knows the GST was introduced to get rid of these other taxes.

MURRAY:

Yes, I think we know that, we also get the impression that it was a non-binding

Agreement.

TREASURER:

Well Paul, he has been taking his GST cheque on a monthly basis for the last

five years, he has now got a huge windfall, a huge windfall, more than was expected.

You know, a windfall over and above what he was promised in this financial year

of $252 million. Next year $234 million, the year after $315 million, the year

after $431 million. He is sitting on this growing revenue, right? This revenue

which was designed to replace other taxes. He said, no, no, I want those taxes

and this revenue. You have got to say, this is the rawest deal that Western

Australia has ever been offered and I come back to this very point. If Dr Gallop

has his way, the one state where you will pay stamp duty on your mortgage is

Western Australia.

MURRAY:

What the Premier alludes to in his statement he put out yesterday is that we

are being punished for not having toll roads and poker machines in Western Australia.

Two taxes that we don’t have and he says because we don’t have them,

he can’t afford to drop those taxes you are asking him to drop.

TREASURER:

Well it gets more bizarre by the minute. You know, what has tolls got to do

with this?

MURRAY:

What he said yesterday is, ‘WA doesn’t burden the community and

business with toll roads and poker machines.’ So what he is saying there

is that in the absence of the revenue coming from them, he can’t afford

to drop these taxes that you are asking WA to drop.

TREASURER:

Well hang on, WA, I have just given you the figures, they have got a windfall

of $234 million in 2005-06, a windfall of $315 million 2006-07, a windfall of

$431 million in 2007-08. That is over and above the old tax system. Under the

old tax system nothing was said about tolls or gambling. Western Australia is

sitting on this growing revenue, it grows every year. What Dr Gallop has to

do every month is bank his cheque. That is all he has to do, just has to bank

his cheque. And when we introduced this, the Agreement was that it would replace

other business taxes. Now, six of the States and Territories have all agreed,

they are all replacing them. He is trying to slip out of this, slip away, pretend

that everybody else in Australia can get the benefit of these tax cuts and try

and hoodwink West Australians into paying higher taxes. I don’t think

he will get away with it.

MURRAY:

Are you aware that some senior West Australian Liberals are very worried about

what appears to be sort of growing centralist tendencies from the Howard Government

since the election?

TREASURER:

Look, Paul, you know, I think you can always have a discussion about what services

should be handled by what level of government. There is a lot of discussion

about health services, there is a lot of discussion about education services

and people will see that differently. You know, I am quite happy to have those

discussions and I think there has to be different areas of responsibility for

the different levels of government. And I for one don’t believe that all

service delivery should be based in Canberra. I don’t believe that, not

for a moment. But that is not this issue, this is an entirely separate issue.

This is an issue where the GST was introduced to get rid of other State taxes.

Every last dollar of GST goes to the State Government and as it received that

income the idea was it would abolish other State taxes. If it doesn’t

all you are going to get is double taxation. That is why Queensland, South Australia,

Victoria and the other States yesterday said, yes, yes, we will honour this

deal, we will get rid of them. Dr Gallop is trying to slip under the radar here,

he is trying to keep those taxes on. Every Western Australian pays GST, just

like you do in Victoria and South Australia, but Dr Gallop wants them to pay

the stamp duties as well.

MURRAY:

Do you really have the ability to withhold the windfall, the GST windfall from

Western Australia if the Premier doesn’t fold on dropping these business

taxes?

TREASURER:

You know, when people say fold, I just want people to understand this Paul,

if he agrees like the other States to cut taxes, the money doesn’t come

to Canberra, I just want to make this point, it doesn’t come to Canberra,

the money goes to West Australia. The value of the tax cut goes to West Australia.

What I am fighting here for is tax cuts for West Australians. That is what I

am fighting for here. The same as they are now getting in Victoria and Queensland

and the other States. What happens if he insists on double taxation? Well we

will face that if it comes to that.

MURRAY:

Do you have a legal ability to withhold?

TREASURER:

Well I am not going to go into what the response would be because at the moment

I am appealing to Dr Gallop to do what the other State Premiers have done and

to give people in Western Australia the tax cuts that the people of the other

States are getting. That is what I am doing, I am appealing to him to do it.

Now, you know, if time runs out and he doesn’t do it, if he wants double

taxation, well we will announce our response then. But I am appealing to him,

if he is listening to this programme, to do what they have done in the other

States, you shouldn’t have to pay GST and these other stamp duties as

well.

MURRAY:

And you are not seriously calling on WA businesses to quit Western Australia

if he doesn’t?

TREASURER:

Well some WA businesses, let me make this point, will restructure transactions.

If there is a stamp duty on a transaction in WA that is not in another State,

what they can do is restructure their transactions into a State where they don’t

have to pay and that is what many will do. This is why in the end you see, double

taxation never actually profits a State because if you are trying to tax business

in a way that another State doesn’t, they can restructure their businesses

to do their transactions in other States. You see, he won’t actually get

more money out of this.

MURRAY:

Oh look, I know that, I mean half the cheques you see around the place have

a Brisbane address on it…

TREASURER:

Well that is why they do it. They restructure, a business that is operating

nationally or across a state border can restructure a transaction into a State,

a head office type transaction into a State and take advantage of a lower stamp

duty. So, he is saying, oh you know, I will get all this money if I have higher

taxes in WA. He may not you know, he may not, they may just restructure their

transactions.

MURRAY:

Okay Peter, thanks for talking to us.

TREASURER:

Good to be with you Paul, thanks.