Interview with Ray Martin,

A Current Affair

Tuesday, 23 August 2005
6.35 pm

SUBJECTS: Muslim extremism, Australian citizenship

MARTIN:

Treasurer Peter Costello joins us now from Melbourne. Thank you for your time

again. The very day that the Prime Minister holds a summit with Australian Muslim

leaders, you are on the front page as saying that radical clerics should be

kicked out. Is that coincidental or a double pronged attack?

TREASURER:

Well the point I am trying to make is this, that there are certain things that

are fundamental to Australia. We have a secular state, we have laws made by

Parliament that are enforced by courts, we respect equality for women. And,

if there are people that want to come into Australia, we expect them to uphold

those values. If you want a theocratic state or you want Sharia law maybe Australia

is not for you.

MARTIN:

Do you think it is time to get tough with radical Muslim clerics who want to

come to Australia?

TREASURER:

Yeah, I think we have got to be absolutely clear that if you come to Australia

this is the kind of country it is. There is no point in coming to Australia

and saying I am offended by your laws or I am offended by your Parliamentary

system of democracy. If you are going to offended by those things, then do not

come.

MARTIN:

But everyday it seems we have Muslim clerics in Australia spouting off on radio

or television programs like this one saying that Islamic law has precedence

over Australian law. How do they get here?

TREASURER:

Yeah, not so. There is one law and it is Australian law and it is made by the

Parliament and the people of Australia elect people to that Parliament. And

if that is not for you then Australia is not for you.

MARTIN:

But do you think we should be tougher before we allow people to come to Australia

and be Australian citizens. Should we ask them to sign a document saying they

accept Australian law before Islamic, they accept Australian women have equality.

TREASURER:

I think we have every right to say to people who are coming to live in Australia,

if you come to live in Australia you have got to accept some fundamental principles.

MARTIN:

If a Muslim says on this program tonight I am against terrorism but I think

that Osama bin Laden is a good bloke should they be allowed to stay?

TREASURER:

Well we still have free speech and I suppose you are entitled to your view.

I put that in the class of a distasteful view and a wrong view but one you can

still express in a free country.

MARTIN:

But Treasurer, does free speech allow you to endorse, have outspoken support

of terrorism?

TREASURER:

It does not. If you are going to incite terrorism or incite violence. If you

want to go out there and say that somebody should engage in a terrorist act

or engage in violence, that is a crime. That is inciting violence against people

and it should be punished as a crime.

MARTIN:

When was the last time we actually punished someone for that?

TREASURER:

Well, it is a fair proposition and maybe nobody has done it or maybe it has

been impossible to prove it. But if somebody wants to go and incite a terrorist

act or incite violence against an Australian citizen, that is a crime.

MARTIN:

What about if they are Australian citizens, if we have allowed them in and

they become citizens, we cannot kick them out, can we?

TREASURER:

No you cannot if they do not have a dual citizenship. If they have a dual citizenship

you can, of course. If they are also citizens in another country, you can say

to them how about exercising your citizenship in that other country. But, of

course, if they only have one citizenship, no, you cannot deport somebody because

there is nowhere for them to go.

MARTIN:

You are the Prime Minister in waiting, pretty much acknowledged. Would you

change the law, would you toughen the law, would you make it tougher to get

in here?

TREASURER:

I certainly think we have to seriously underline this oath of citizenship.

We have got to make sure people understand it and I think we have every right

to expect them to believe it and if they do not believe it I think we have every

right to say citizenship is not for you.

MARTIN:

Peter Costello, thanks again for your time.

TREASURER:

Thanks very much Ray.